“I think we’re gaslit as we’re being trained as marketers and copywriters, because who doesn’t want to make money when you have your own business?”

—  Michelle Crowder-Soellner

When people are asked about the most trusted professions, salespeople and marketers tend to show up pretty low on the list.

We all want to make money. But when you throw marketing and sales into the mix, the lines between ethical and unethical behavior… can be a little complicated.

Michelle Crowder-Soellner is a successful copywriter — and as a former social work professor, she’s also a strong believer in ethics.

“You have to be really clear on your own ethics and your own values, and know what the ethics and values are of the people you’re working with — and make sure they’re aligned,” Michelle says. “Because if you’re calling yourself an ethical marketer and then you’re working for somebody who has different ethics, then you’re going to get called out at some point, probably.” 

Professional persuaders have a certain burden of integrity when it comes to their work. The more experienced you are, the easier it is for you to use psychological manipulation to make those sales. 

But that isn’t the only way to sell.

By choosing to use your powers for good, you’ll be helping to fight back against negative stereotypes — AND feel better about what you do.


In‌ ‌this‌ ‌episode of the podcast,‌ ‌you’ll discover:‌ ‌

  • Why not everyone is in love with the term “ethical marketing” — and how complicated a concept it actually is
  • How to shift to a more positive marketing approach 
  • The ties between colonialism, white supremacy, patriarchy, and coercive marketing


About Michelle Crowder-Soellner

Michelle Crowder-Soellner is a copywriter and brand voice consultant who creates space for transformation through storytelling. She loves research and using best practices to ensure success — but part of the reason she learns the rules is so that she can break them. 


Highlights:‌ ‌

03:09  “What is your ritual?”

05:39  Living that professor life

08:31  Ethical marketing

13:03  Burden of integrity

15:30  New approach & impact

18:23  Market sophistication

19:37  Authentic & safe

22:44  Toxicity



Michelle Crowder-Soellner

IG: @conscientious_copy








Special thanks to Emily Milling and the team at The Ultimate Creative and our business manager Erika Macauley.

Music for this podcast was recorded with producer Spencer Garn at Diamond Street Studios in Atlanta, Georgia.

Learn more at www.hollandcreative.io/ritual





IG: @conversioncopydesign